#1 Need help with my new Golden wonder Killies!
implicitraindrop Posted on: 2010/12/27 10:30
I have recently acquired a quad of golden wonders. 1male and 3 females. My first question is whether he will breed all three females? My second is what do I need to do to hatch the eggs? I have tried collecting them and put them in a aerated bowl of room temp water but I worry that the water was maybe too cool cause they did not hatch. I also put a little peat in the bottom of one bowl to see if that may help... no go there either. I have two mops to cycle in and out of the tank and am doing so on a weekly basis. Does any one have any successful experience with these fish? I would like to move on to other killies but will not until I have been successful here. Thanks for any help you can give me. My email is email@example.com
#2 Re: Need help with my new Golden wonder Killies!
lharper Posted on: 2010/12/27 10:56
I have successfully bred several color variations of this species. The eggs are large and will hatch in about 21 days, depending on temperature. I incubate them in tap water at room temperature (low 70s). If the eggs are fungusing, the fish are too young. If the eggs are not fungussing (turn opaque white) but disappearing add some Maroxy or fresh tap water containing chlorine.
#3 Re: Need help with my new Golden wonder Killies!
implicitraindrop Posted on: 2010/12/27 11:29
I have Jungle brand fish egg guard... will that work? Also, will the male breed all the females when they are ready? 2 of the ladies are smaller than the male and the other female. Or should I purchase 2 more males of similar size to the smaller females? Another question I forgot to ask was what is the best food for them? I have been buying small danios for 20 cents a piece but the 4 of them can eat 50 in a day or 2. I also put in flake food and freeze dried shrimp. They do not appear to like most of the flakes. I have just yesterday purchased 8 guppies to try to breed them for supplementary food as well. All your help will be greatly appreciated.
#4 Re: Need help with my new Golden wonder Killies!
implicitraindrop Posted on: 2010/12/27 11:35
Another thought... I have well water with out chlorine. is this okay? And should I remove the eggs from the mops or just place the mops with the eggs in the tank or bowl used for hatching? Should these hatching areas be aerated or can they be left without airstones?
Again, all help is much appreciated!!!
#5 Re: Need help with my new Golden wonder Killies!
lharper Posted on: 2010/12/27 13:47
I incubate them in 12 oz Deli cups in about 1 inch of chlorinated tap water. Lacking that, I would add 1 drop of clorox per gallon of your well water. the best food for these fish, in my opinion is black worms, tubifex worms, Grindal worms, daphnia, mosquito larvae - all live. Lacking that, frozen bloodworms are a good choice. I have fed them Omega One Freshwater flake. No other flakes seem as good.
#6 Re: Need help with my new Golden wonder Killies!
scottdavis Posted on: 2010/12/28 22:17
Do you remove the eggs from the chlorinated water after a period of time. I would think that replacing the chlorinated water with a portion of treated, "seasoned" water that one would prepare for partial water changes would be to the embryo's benefit.
ITD, it is more and more common to also do a water change on the eggs at about 7 or 8 days. By then there are some metabolic wastes and over all hatches seem better with cleaner water.
I'm not familiar with Jungle Egg Guard. After visiting the Jungle Labs web site I'm still unfamiliar with it.
Traditionally killie people have use a dilute acriflavin solution to discourage the spread of fungus from infertile to good eggs. Using methylene blue seems to identify the bad eggs (they turn blue perhaps as the egg membrane breaks down and allows the stuff in the egg). We still have to remove the bad eggs.
After three or so days the bad eggs are identified and the medicinal dyes are often changed out. Overdosing is not good for the eggs. Many people just water incubate the eggs, snatching white eggs from the container. (That doesn't work as easily with albino gardneri.) Lee's preliminary soak in fresh tap water seems to make a significant difference in some cases.
As Lee suggested, if your eggs remain clear, they just haven't developed. I try to breed lineatus and other Aplochelius in tanks that are 78-80 degrees F./about 26 C. A lot more eggs, in my modest experience, are laid at those temperatures. Practically that means eggs are sought and incubated when the room the tanks are in warm ups in the summer. Living in a place new to us, my egg incubating corner got much cooler. in the winter. I indignantly wondered why it was taking gardneri eggs over a month to hatch. The water turned out to be 59 F and I was then glad the eggs were even still alive!
If the lineatus aquarium is heated, could the eggs be ok in strong light? I've never experimented with lineatus eggs and light. They are even encouraged to reside in rice paddies for purposes of mosquito control, so the adults don't mind that much heat and sunshine. But I would put some water in and close the incubating container, maybe opening it to check on the eggs daily. I don't know if it is practical to put a container in your tank.
Your male lineatus most certainly is trying to breed with all three females. If they are smaller than him, that arrangement is wise.
However they may be able to identify the other females' eggs by olfactory means and eat them. Sometimes members of a killie pair will be separated, fed meaty foods and put together. Their egg production over a day or two is much greater that if they are routinely together. Mostly we don't have to worry though about enough lineatus eggs. :)
Putting the peat in the incubating tank is a neat idea, but if the Aplocheilus, is given water at an appropriate mineral level (not necessarily what we have to give rain forest killies) is sufficient.
Meaty foods (they love the defrosted and rinsed glass worms that float), black worms, and the others mentioned before. That, faithful partial water changes and heat - ah and a tightly covered tank - are pretty much what they need from us.
It may be that putting picked eggs and incubating them in a closed 1 pound yogurt container in the parents' tank isn't practical. If you were planning on raising the fry in a 10-gallon tank with a submersible heater, perhaps just removing a mop from the adults' tank, checking for eggs and leaving the mop and eggs in the new 10-gallon would be sufficient.
Get the brine shrimp hatchery ready to go. ;)
Good luck and all the best!
#7 Re: Need help with my new Golden wonder Killies!
implicitraindrop Posted on: 2010/12/29 8:45
Thank you both! You have given me plenty of info to wrap my head around. My local fish shop only carried the jungle egg guard and she said it has been on the shelf for years. I may have to go to the big box stores (we have petco and petsmart about 20 miles away... although I drive 35 to the LFS) to find acriflavine and methylene blue you have mentioned.
I seem to miss on the issue of airstones in the incubation chambers. Maybe this is controversial and no one likes to give answers to the question. I am very appreciative for all the info you have given. Below is the whole scenario for my first and subsequent egg experiences with a surprise at the end.
I first noticed eggs on some java moss I had in the tank so I plucked them from it. I quickly read somewhere that stated putting them in a small container with a little peat from a peat pellet for gardening in the bottom would condition hardwater for incubation. So I did just that. Most the eggs were totally clear. In a few days they were clear except for a few that were white, so I removed the white ones and bought the Jungle fish egg guard. I treated the water and pulled the moss again and found a few more eggs. These eggs I put in a container without the peat in the bottom. I had all containers under a light with airstones in each. After 12-14 days I checked them and they were still clear or white and nothing inside of them. I wondered if it was the light. I had in the mean time created several spawning mops of acrylic yarn and left one in the tank for 1 week. I removed 8 eggs that were all clear from it and place them in a tank at my brothers that was empty but heated so I thought this could be a new variable(or 2) since it was heated and softer water. The mop I used went into a ziploc bag and placed it in a drawer over the holidays. I pulled it out Monday to switch it with the one in the tank and checked through it quickly. I found 2 eggs, 1 highly speckled and the other with only a couple of speckles. This has got me believing that the light has affected them. Let me know what you think if you have time to respond. My biggest concerns are hardness, light, and aeration.Thank you again for your help!
#8 Re: Need help with my new Golden wonder Killies!
lharper Posted on: 2010/12/29 9:14
Scott and anyone else,
I thought that leaving the eggs in the chlorinated water would be bad for the fry when they hatched. In my water which contains about 1-2 ppm chloramine, after 2-3 weeks it does not test positive for chlorine and it does not seem to hurt the fry. On another subject, i have found that surface area is more important than actual aeration. I would estimate that a dozen eggs in a 4 inch diameter container is OK, but with 50 eggs, they will die in that small a container. I put a 50 egg batch in a shoe box od about 1/2 to 1 inch water. That means that you need about one square inch of water surface for each egg.
#9 Re: Need help with my new Golden wonder Killies!
lharper Posted on: 2010/12/29 9:16
I forgot to mention that I use Charles Harrison;s OTO chlorine test kit. I also do not put the containers in bright light, but not in total darkness.
#10 Re: Need help with my new Golden wonder Killies!
wshenefelt Posted on: 2010/12/29 11:27
Since you do not seem to have eggs developing (they stay clear instead)my thoughts revert to hardness. See if you can get a hardness check on the water. If it is too hard it may prevent the eggs from being fertilized. Well water in manyp parts of the country can be like rock. If the area has limestone then the hardness of the water can be a problem. See if you can get a hardness reading. If not, bag a small sample, maybe half an ounce in a fish bag, doube bagged and gum banded, (not just a ziplock) and send it to me and I'll check it. Address is
2810 Schade Hill Road
North Huntingdon, pa 15642. The only other source of unfertile eggs could be an infertile or too immature male. If he is under 2 inches long that could be the case. Do not worry about chlorine in the water. If it is in there it is gone within a few hours and should not hurt the eggs. MAybe avoid the peat. I have found it does extend the development time required in many non annual killies.
I do not think jungle makes "egg guard" anymore. Mostly salt if I remember. Not bad stuff, at least for angelfish eggs. If the eggs are not showing some brown within a couple of weeks, antifungals will not help as they are probably infertile. I'm not too sure about lineatus but most killie eggs do fine in clear plain water even from the chlorinated tap. Some are not light tolerant though.
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